
Load Specifications
Load data in caliber 8.5 x 63 with .338 | 200gr | Speer Hot-Cor bullet and 93 powders. The key underlying parameters are shown in the table above. The recommended powders for this cartridge and bullet combination are Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR, ReloadSwiss RS 52 and Hodgdon LEVERevolution.
Important Notice: DO NOT go below Minimum Charge or above Maximum Charge. Since we have no control over the equipment and components used, any responsibility and liability for the results achieved is rejected.
Only powders/loads that match the current filter criteria are displayed: max pressure of a load ≤ 90% of max. standardized pressure, fill rate ≥ 80% and propellant combustion ≥ 95%. Use the sliders above the tables to adjust these thresholds.
Charge: Powder weight in grains. Start with the minimum load and work up carefully.
FR (Fill Rate): Case fill as a percentage. Values above 100% mean compressed loads.
MaxP / %: Maximum chamber pressure in bar and as a percentage of the standardized maximum for this caliber.
V(0): Muzzle velocity in feet per second (fps) at the standardized barrel length.
z (Powder Burn): Estimated propellant combustion percentage at bullet exit.
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You can find more information in our FAQ: How can I use the Personalized Load Calculator?
Max Load - Barrel Length: 23.62"
| Powder | Charge | FR | MaxP | % | V(0) | z |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Accurate 2015 | <<locked>> | 90% | 56,405 psi | 90% | 2674 fps | 100% |
| Accurate 2200 | <<locked>> | 82% | 56,420 psi | 90% | 2762 fps | 99% |
| Accurate 2460 | <<locked>> | 86% | 54,839 psi | 88% | 2697 fps | 100% |
| Accurate 2495 | <<locked>> | 94% | 53,722 psi | 86% | 2687 fps | 100% |
| Accurate 2520 | <<locked>> | 88% | 52,794 psi | 85% | 2707 fps | 100% |
| Accurate 4064 | <<locked>> | 96% | 53,272 psi | 85% | 2723 fps | 100% |
| Accurate 4350ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 45,368 psi | 73% | 2667 fps | 96.9% |
| Accurate LT-30 | <<locked>> | 84% | 56,333 psi | 90% | 2625 fps | 100% |
| Accurate LT-32 | <<locked>> | 82% | 53,476 psi | 86% | 2602 fps | 100% |
| ADI AR 2206H | <<locked>> | 92% | 55,361 psi | 89% | 2756 fps | 99.4% |
| ADI AR 2208 | <<locked>> | 98% | 56,318 psi | 90% | 2753 fps | 99.1% |
| ADI AR 2219 | <<locked>> | 82% | 53,200 psi | 85% | 2690 fps | 100% |
| ADI Benchmark 8208 | <<locked>> | 90% | 54,795 psi | 88% | 2720 fps | 99.8% |
| Alliant AR-Comp | <<locked>> | 90% | 54,288 psi | 87% | 2700 fps | 100% |
| Alliant Power Pro 1200-R | <<locked>> | 86% | 56,391 psi | 90% | 2822 fps | 99.8% |
| Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR | <<locked>> | 94% | 54,781 psi | 88% | 2861 fps | 98.9% |
| Alliant Reloder- TS 15.5 | <<locked>> | 98% | 55,579 psi | 89% | 2772 fps | 99.8% |
| Alliant Reloder-10x | <<locked>> | 86% | 56,246 psi | 90% | 2680 fps | 100% |
| Alliant Reloder-15 | <<locked>> | 96% | 56,362 psi | 90% | 2792 fps | 99.2% |
| Alliant Reloder-16ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 45,527 psi | 73% | 2674 fps | 97% |
| Alliant Reloder-17ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 52,547 psi | 84% | 2828 fps | 99.5% |
| Baschieri & Pellagri 106 | <<locked>> | 84% | 55,361 psi | 89% | 2621 fps | 100% |
| Baschieri & Pellagri 107 | <<locked>> | 92% | 55,100 psi | 88% | 2772 fps | 98.7% |
| Bofors RP3 | <<locked>> | 98% | 55,796 psi | 89% | 2785 fps | 99.8% |
| Hodgdon Benchmark | <<locked>> | 88% | 53,737 psi | 86% | 2661 fps | 99.9% |
| Hodgdon BL-C2 | <<locked>> | 90% | 53,359 psi | 86% | 2743 fps | 99.9% |
| Hodgdon CFE223 | <<locked>> | 88% | 55,303 psi | 89% | 2835 fps | 99.2% |
| Hodgdon H322 | <<locked>> | 86% | 55,434 psi | 89% | 2720 fps | 100% |
| Hodgdon H335 | <<locked>> | 84% | 52,924 psi | 85% | 2697 fps | 100% |
| Hodgdon H380 | <<locked>> | 96% | 53,911 psi | 86% | 2743 fps | 98% |
| Hodgdon H4895 | <<locked>> | 92% | 55,811 psi | 89% | 2769 fps | 99.7% |
| Hodgdon Hybrid 100Vᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 41,684 psi | 67% | 2566 fps | 97.6% |
| Hodgdon LEVERevolution | <<locked>> | 94% | 54,433 psi | 87% | 2795 fps | 99.8% |
| Hodgdon TrailBossᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 34,722 psi | 56% | 1637 fps | 100% |
| Hodgdon VARGET | <<locked>> | 92% | 53,795 psi | 86% | 2723 fps | 99.5% |
| IMR 3031 | <<locked>> | 92% | 55,143 psi | 88% | 2759 fps | 100% |
| IMR 4064 | <<locked>> | 96% | 55,637 psi | 89% | 2733 fps | 99.2% |
| IMR 4198 | <<locked>> | 84% | 53,519 psi | 86% | 2602 fps | 100% |
| IMR 4451 Enduronᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 55,593 psi | 89% | 2730 fps | 95.9% |
| IMR 4831ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 43,424 psi | 70% | 2615 fps | 96.5% |
| IMR 4895 | <<locked>> | 94% | 54,389 psi | 87% | 2776 fps | 99.4% |
| IMR 8208 XBR | <<locked>> | 90% | 54,795 psi | 88% | 2720 fps | 99.8% |
| Lovex D073.5 | <<locked>> | 86% | 54,955 psi | 88% | 2707 fps | 100% |
| Lovex D073.6 | <<locked>> | 92% | 54,476 psi | 87% | 2740 fps | 100% |
| Lovex S060 | <<locked>> | 92% | 55,521 psi | 89% | 2690 fps | 99.4% |
| Lovex S062 | <<locked>> | 96% | 55,201 psi | 89% | 2736 fps | 99.9% |
| Lovex S065ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 50,995 psi | 82% | 2671 fps | 96.6% |
| Norma 200 | <<locked>> | 82% | 56,144 psi | 90% | 2651 fps | 100% |
| Norma 201 | <<locked>> | 92% | 54,201 psi | 87% | 2710 fps | 99.8% |
| Norma 202 | <<locked>> | 92% | 54,505 psi | 87% | 2717 fps | 100% |
| Norma 203B | <<locked>> | 96% | 55,405 psi | 89% | 2779 fps | 99.4% |
| Norma URPᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 45,440 psi | 73% | 2661 fps | 96.8% |
| Ramshot Big Game | <<locked>> | 96% | 55,883 psi | 90% | 2805 fps | 99.4% |
| Ramshot TAC | <<locked>> | 90% | 55,434 psi | 89% | 2730 fps | 97.6% |
| Ramshot Wild Boar | <<locked>> | 90% | 54,288 psi | 87% | 2746 fps | 99.3% |
| Ramshot X-Terminator | <<locked>> | 88% | 56,072 psi | 90% | 2720 fps | 99.3% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 14ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 35,012 psi | 56% | 1677 fps | 100% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 40 | <<locked>> | 86% | 54,462 psi | 87% | 2707 fps | 100% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 50 | <<locked>> | 96% | 54,578 psi | 88% | 2723 fps | 96.5% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 52 | <<locked>> | 92% | 52,649 psi | 84% | 2802 fps | 98.8% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 60ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 56,202 psi | 90% | 2890 fps | 100% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 62ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 45,223 psi | 73% | 2684 fps | 96.5% |
| Rottweil R 901 | <<locked>> | 90% | 55,042 psi | 88% | 2694 fps | 100% |
| Rottweil R 902 | <<locked>> | 94% | 54,578 psi | 88% | 2707 fps | 99.8% |
| Rottweil R 903ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 55,405 psi | 89% | 2772 fps | 99.7% |
| Shooters World Long Rifleᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 50,995 psi | 82% | 2671 fps | 96.6% |
| Shooters World Match Rifle | <<locked>> | 92% | 54,476 psi | 87% | 2740 fps | 100% |
| Shooters World Precision | <<locked>> | 96% | 55,201 psi | 89% | 2736 fps | 99.9% |
| Shooters World Tactical Rifle | <<locked>> | 84% | 54,331 psi | 87% | 2674 fps | 99.7% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 10 | <<locked>> | 82% | 53,751 psi | 86% | 2700 fps | 100% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 11 | <<locked>> | 98% | 53,983 psi | 87% | 2785 fps | 99.3% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 3 | <<locked>> | 84% | 54,041 psi | 87% | 2657 fps | 100% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 7 | <<locked>> | 90% | 53,345 psi | 86% | 2703 fps | 97.7% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 9 | <<locked>> | 92% | 53,795 psi | 86% | 2730 fps | 99.2% |
| SNPE Vectan Tubal 3000 | <<locked>> | 92% | 56,420 psi | 90% | 2661 fps | 100% |
| SNPE Vectan Tubal 5000 | <<locked>> | 98% | 55,738 psi | 89% | 2651 fps | 100% |
| Somchem S321 | <<locked>> | 88% | 56,057 psi | 90% | 2753 fps | 100% |
| Somchem S335 | <<locked>> | 92% | 55,376 psi | 89% | 2657 fps | 100% |
| Somchem S341 | <<locked>> | 92% | 56,405 psi | 90% | 2749 fps | 99.4% |
| Somchem S355ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 56,217 psi | 90% | 2776 fps | 99.7% |
| Somchem S365ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 40,582 psi | 65% | 2612 fps | 98.7% |
| Vihtavuori N130 | <<locked>> | 88% | 56,086 psi | 90% | 2628 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N133 | <<locked>> | 92% | 56,275 psi | 90% | 2648 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N135 | <<locked>> | 94% | 53,548 psi | 86% | 2677 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N140 | <<locked>> | 94% | 54,868 psi | 88% | 2694 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N150ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 54,186 psi | 87% | 2710 fps | 99.9% |
| Vihtavuori N160ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 47,993 psi | 77% | 2667 fps | 97.2% |
| Vihtavuori N530 | <<locked>> | 90% | 55,376 psi | 89% | 2717 fps | 99.9% |
| Vihtavuori N540 | <<locked>> | 94% | 53,011 psi | 85% | 2690 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N550ᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 47,123 psi | 76% | 2671 fps | 96.9% |
| Winchester 6.5 StaBALLᴾ | <<locked>> | 100% | 49,313 psi | 79% | 2657 fps | 99.1% |
| Winchester 748 | <<locked>> | 90% | 54,447 psi | 87% | 2762 fps | 100% |
| Winchester StaBALL Match | <<locked>> | 92% | 53,258 psi | 85% | 2736 fps | 99.5% |
Recommended = one of the top powders for this cartridge and bullet combination.
Start Load - Barrel Length: 23.62"
| Powder | Charge | FR | MaxP | % | V(0) | z |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Accurate 2015 | <<locked>> | 80% | 41,379 psi | 66% | 2454 fps | 100% |
| Accurate 2200 | <<locked>> | 80% | 53,040 psi | 85% | 2710 fps | 98.6% |
| Accurate 2460 | <<locked>> | 80% | 44,976 psi | 72% | 2549 fps | 99.9% |
| Accurate 2495 | <<locked>> | 80% | 33,910 psi | 54% | 2365 fps | 100% |
| Accurate 2520 | <<locked>> | 80% | 40,147 psi | 64% | 2500 fps | 99.3% |
| Accurate 4064 | <<locked>> | 80% | 32,068 psi | 51% | 2343 fps | 98.5% |
| Accurate 4350 | <<locked>> | 96% | 39,450 psi | 63% | 2556 fps | 95.3% |
| Accurate LT-30 | <<locked>> | 80% | 49,951 psi | 80% | 2536 fps | 100% |
| Accurate LT-32 | <<locked>> | 80% | 50,285 psi | 81% | 2556 fps | 100% |
| ADI AR 2206H | <<locked>> | 80% | 38,029 psi | 61% | 2451 fps | 96.2% |
| ADI AR 2208 | <<locked>> | 84% | 36,796 psi | 59% | 2408 fps | 95% |
| ADI AR 2219 | <<locked>> | 80% | 49,734 psi | 80% | 2641 fps | 100% |
| ADI Benchmark 8208 | <<locked>> | 80% | 40,016 psi | 64% | 2470 fps | 98% |
| Alliant AR-Comp | <<locked>> | 80% | 39,044 psi | 63% | 2477 fps | 100% |
| Alliant Power Pro 1200-R | <<locked>> | 80% | 46,224 psi | 74% | 2657 fps | 98.7% |
| Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR | 55.9 gr | 84% | 39,044 psi | 63% | 2562 fps | 95.1% |
| Alliant Reloder- TS 15.5 | <<locked>> | 80% | 31,401 psi | 50% | 2323 fps | 95% |
| Alliant Reloder-10x | <<locked>> | 80% | 46,992 psi | 75% | 2549 fps | 100% |
| Alliant Reloder-15 | <<locked>> | 82% | 36,318 psi | 58% | 2434 fps | 95.1% |
| Alliant Reloder-16 | <<locked>> | 96% | 40,234 psi | 65% | 2566 fps | 95.3% |
| Alliant Reloder-17 | <<locked>> | 88% | 35,302 psi | 57% | 2487 fps | 95.5% |
| Baschieri & Pellagri 106 | <<locked>> | 80% | 48,704 psi | 78% | 2530 fps | 100% |
| Baschieri & Pellagri 107 | <<locked>> | 82% | 39,479 psi | 63% | 2500 fps | 95.4% |
| Bofors RP3 | <<locked>> | 82% | 32,793 psi | 53% | 2372 fps | 95.7% |
| Hodgdon Benchmark | <<locked>> | 80% | 42,032 psi | 67% | 2467 fps | 98.9% |
| Hodgdon BL-C2 | <<locked>> | 80% | 38,130 psi | 61% | 2480 fps | 98.2% |
| Hodgdon CFE223 | <<locked>> | 80% | 41,742 psi | 67% | 2602 fps | 96.7% |
| Hodgdon H322 | <<locked>> | 80% | 45,759 psi | 73% | 2579 fps | 100% |
| Hodgdon H335 | <<locked>> | 80% | 46,209 psi | 74% | 2592 fps | 100% |
| Hodgdon H380 | <<locked>> | 88% | 41,437 psi | 66% | 2533 fps | 95.2% |
| Hodgdon H4895 | <<locked>> | 80% | 38,261 psi | 61% | 2464 fps | 96.9% |
| Hodgdon Hybrid 100V | <<locked>> | 94% | 34,505 psi | 55% | 2415 fps | 95.3% |
| Hodgdon LEVERevolution | 52.2 gr | 80% | 34,171 psi | 55% | 2421 fps | 96.1% |
| Hodgdon TrailBoss | <<locked>> | 80% | 25,817 psi | 41% | 1463 fps | 100% |
| Hodgdon VARGET | <<locked>> | 80% | 36,825 psi | 59% | 2418 fps | 96.4% |
| IMR 3031 | <<locked>> | 80% | 37,115 psi | 60% | 2474 fps | 100% |
| IMR 4064 | <<locked>> | 82% | 36,260 psi | 58% | 2392 fps | 95.1% |
| IMR 4198 | <<locked>> | 80% | 47,427 psi | 76% | 2516 fps | 100% |
| IMR 4451 Enduron | <<locked>> | 98% | 52,127 psi | 84% | 2677 fps | 95.1% |
| IMR 4831 | <<locked>> | 98% | 40,799 psi | 65% | 2566 fps | 95.8% |
| IMR 4895 | <<locked>> | 80% | 34,708 psi | 56% | 2411 fps | 95.2% |
| IMR 8208 XBR | <<locked>> | 80% | 40,016 psi | 64% | 2470 fps | 98% |
| Lovex D073.5 | <<locked>> | 80% | 44,614 psi | 72% | 2549 fps | 99.4% |
| Lovex D073.6 | <<locked>> | 80% | 36,289 psi | 58% | 2434 fps | 98.6% |
| Lovex S060 | <<locked>> | 80% | 38,740 psi | 62% | 2402 fps | 96.5% |
| Lovex S062 | <<locked>> | 80% | 33,562 psi | 54% | 2346 fps | 96.3% |
| Lovex S065 | <<locked>> | 96% | 45,049 psi | 72% | 2572 fps | 95.1% |
| Norma 200 | <<locked>> | 80% | 52,808 psi | 85% | 2608 fps | 100% |
| Norma 201 | <<locked>> | 80% | 37,289 psi | 60% | 2415 fps | 97.4% |
| Norma 202 | <<locked>> | 80% | 37,362 psi | 60% | 2431 fps | 99.3% |
| Norma 203B | <<locked>> | 82% | 35,650 psi | 57% | 2425 fps | 95.5% |
| Norma URP | <<locked>> | 96% | 40,205 psi | 64% | 2562 fps | 95.3% |
| Ramshot Big Game | <<locked>> | 84% | 37,434 psi | 60% | 2480 fps | 95.8% |
| Ramshot TAC | <<locked>> | 84% | 45,469 psi | 73% | 2569 fps | 95.5% |
| Ramshot Wild Boar | <<locked>> | 80% | 38,899 psi | 62% | 2480 fps | 96.4% |
| Ramshot X-Terminator | <<locked>> | 80% | 43,395 psi | 70% | 2516 fps | 97.4% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 14 | <<locked>> | 80% | 25,976 psi | 42% | 1496 fps | 100% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 40 | <<locked>> | 80% | 44,947 psi | 72% | 2556 fps | 99.7% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 50 | <<locked>> | 92% | 47,950 psi | 77% | 2621 fps | 95% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 52 | 52.9 gr | 82% | 37,347 psi | 60% | 2523 fps | 95.4% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 60 | <<locked>> | 80% | 29,138 psi | 47% | 2329 fps | 95.2% |
| ReloadSwiss RS 62 | <<locked>> | 98% | 42,308 psi | 68% | 2631 fps | 95.6% |
| Rottweil R 901 | <<locked>> | 80% | 41,046 psi | 66% | 2467 fps | 99.6% |
| Rottweil R 902 | <<locked>> | 80% | 35,491 psi | 57% | 2369 fps | 96.9% |
| Rottweil R 903 | <<locked>> | 84% | 32,851 psi | 53% | 2365 fps | 95.3% |
| Shooters World Long Rifle | <<locked>> | 96% | 45,049 psi | 72% | 2572 fps | 95.1% |
| Shooters World Match Rifle | <<locked>> | 80% | 36,289 psi | 58% | 2434 fps | 98.6% |
| Shooters World Precision | <<locked>> | 80% | 33,562 psi | 54% | 2346 fps | 96.3% |
| Shooters World Tactical Rifle | <<locked>> | 80% | 47,543 psi | 76% | 2572 fps | 99% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 10 | <<locked>> | 80% | 50,125 psi | 80% | 2651 fps | 100% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 11 | <<locked>> | 86% | 36,521 psi | 59% | 2467 fps | 95.5% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 3 | <<locked>> | 80% | 47,659 psi | 76% | 2569 fps | 100% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 7 | <<locked>> | 84% | 43,294 psi | 69% | 2536 fps | 95.5% |
| SNPE Vectan SP 9 | <<locked>> | 80% | 36,506 psi | 59% | 2418 fps | 95.7% |
| SNPE Vectan Tubal 3000 | <<locked>> | 80% | 39,030 psi | 63% | 2388 fps | 99.4% |
| SNPE Vectan Tubal 5000 | <<locked>> | 80% | 31,995 psi | 51% | 2257 fps | 98.9% |
| Somchem S321 | <<locked>> | 80% | 42,801 psi | 69% | 2543 fps | 98.8% |
| Somchem S335 | <<locked>> | 80% | 38,421 psi | 62% | 2388 fps | 99.7% |
| Somchem S341 | <<locked>> | 80% | 37,507 psi | 60% | 2434 fps | 95.9% |
| Somchem S355 | <<locked>> | 84% | 34,142 psi | 55% | 2382 fps | 95.5% |
| Somchem S365 | <<locked>> | 92% | 31,517 psi | 51% | 2402 fps | 95.7% |
| Vihtavuori N130 | <<locked>> | 80% | 44,222 psi | 71% | 2461 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N133 | <<locked>> | 80% | 39,102 psi | 63% | 2392 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N135 | <<locked>> | 80% | 34,374 psi | 55% | 2365 fps | 100% |
| Vihtavuori N140 | <<locked>> | 80% | 35,346 psi | 57% | 2372 fps | 99.2% |
| Vihtavuori N150 | <<locked>> | 82% | 30,356 psi | 49% | 2274 fps | 95.7% |
| Vihtavuori N160 | <<locked>> | 96% | 42,177 psi | 68% | 2562 fps | 95.7% |
| Vihtavuori N530 | <<locked>> | 80% | 40,016 psi | 64% | 2467 fps | 98.1% |
| Vihtavuori N540 | <<locked>> | 80% | 33,924 psi | 54% | 2356 fps | 98.5% |
| Vihtavuori N550 | <<locked>> | 96% | 41,249 psi | 66% | 2566 fps | 95.3% |
| Winchester 6.5 StaBALL | <<locked>> | 90% | 35,404 psi | 57% | 2392 fps | 95.7% |
| Winchester 748 | <<locked>> | 80% | 38,682 psi | 62% | 2500 fps | 98.5% |
| Winchester StaBALL Match | <<locked>> | 80% | 35,636 psi | 57% | 2421 fps | 96.2% |
Recommended = one of the top powders for this cartridge and bullet combination.
ᴾ possible press load - work up slowly to this load while watching for signs of excessive pressure.
This overview compares 93 powders for 8.5 x 63 loaded with the .338 | 200gr | Speer Hot-Cor. ReloadSwiss RS 60 delivers the highest muzzle velocity at 2,890 fps; across all powders the maximum-charge window runs from 1,637 fps to 2,890 fps. Accurate 4350 gives the best case fill at 100 %, and 93 of the 93 powders fall inside the usable 80–100 % fill window.
Relative to the caliber's maximum pressure (430 MPa), the top charges use 56–90 %, leaving at least 10 % headroom. The 200.0 gr projectile in 0.338" calls for a 1:6.0 twist; slower twists will usually not stabilise this weight. Accurate 4350, Alliant Reloder-16, Alliant Reloder-17 reach 100 % fill or more at maximum charge, so these are compressed loads: they need a long drop tube to seat cleanly and react sensitively to the case capacity of your own brass lot. Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR, ReloadSwiss RS 52, Hodgdon LEVERevolution rank at the top here: for 8.5 x 63 with the .338 | 200gr | Speer Hot-Cor they combine a high case fill with complete burn and sit in the upper velocity band. Always begin at the start load and work up in small increments while checking case and primer for pressure signs.